A woman's work- with Carol Moen

Carol Moen [preview]:

As we’re doing the social side of our work, and trying to, you know, work really hard to connect women to secure futures, a really, really beautiful secondary outcome is that, while we’re doing that, realistically we’re slowly starting to sort of change the face and the heart of industry as a whole.

Jen Hancock:

This is Building Good. I’m Jen Hancock.

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Jen Hancock:

Picture this. A massive storm just blew through your city. You’ve noticed a leaky spot on your ceiling, and a few shingles have been blown clean off your roof. You need it fixed fast. You make an appointment with a local roofing company and get a knock on the door. Your service professional has arrived. When you open the door, are you picturing a man, or a woman?

Women working in trades isn’t a new concept. I mean, women even made up the majority of the trades workforce back in the World Wars. And I think most of us do genuinely believe that women can get a labour-intensive trade job done—and done well. Despite that, over the last few decades, women haven’t typically been considered go-to trades professionals. A lot of women don’t even know they could have careers in these industries. But there’s a revolution brewing.

After so many women found themselves out of a job when the pandemic hit, they also found themselves totally re-evaluating their career path, and starting to look at the trades more seriously. The only problem: along with navigating the disproportionate amount of family responsibilities dumped on them during lockdown, many had no trades experience or industry insight. But I’m talking with one woman who’s giving them that.

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Jen Hancock:

Carol Moen is the President and CEO at Women Building Futures, a non-profit based in Edmonton, Alberta. They’re helping women achieve economic prosperity through trades training and mentorship. After graduating from university as one of just a handful of women in her engineering program, Carol rose to leadership at Dow Chemical, where she worked for 25 years. Retirement wasn’t quite her speed and she needed more. But it did give her some time to reflect on her experiences in industry. While it wasn’t always an easy path, it was a rewarding one. And, recognizing that many women face more barriers than she did, she joined Women Building Futures to enable hundreds more women to build good futures for themselves.

Carol Moen:

I enjoyed working with all of the men that I ever worked with through my entire career. But I do know that a lot of the women on the sites looked up to me and often did reach out for mentoring because of the role that I was in. And I worked hard to try and mold and mentor women to come behind me. And, you know, one of the things that would often come up is they’d say, “Oh, yes. We see what you do. You know, we see what you have to do in order to maintain your job and do it well.” And I did work hard to do those things. But I also raised two amazing young men during that whole entire time.

And so often, you know, when they would speak to me about, you know, being concerned about whether or not they could possible do that as well, I…. You know, I think the real differentiators for me: we did reach out and have support. My husband and I were both working busy roles. We were fortunate to have, you know, for many formative years for our kids, a wonderful nanny to help us actually work on raising the boys—which was, I was very, very grateful for. But, no question though, in order to enable women to be brave and to move forward and not have them feeling like they’re giving up things as it relates to family—which is always, always so important to women—it is something that companies definitely need to be aware of. You know, if they want women to move in and up in their organizations, retention and, you know, ensuring that that culture is very positive in order to enable retention is really, really important.

Inclusivity and diversity does seem to be more top of mind across the sector. You know, certainly from a WBF perspective, we—we have lots of companies that are interested in partnering with us. And from my understanding, if we look back, you know, 10 even 20 years ago when we started, it was us trying to drag companies to the table. So I do think there’s some really positive indications that things are moving in the right direction. But, no question, like, additional change is absolutely needed if—you know.

And especially if you look at trades, you know, even from a Dow perspective, when I left my role on site, there were a large number of female engineers during the 25 years that I was there, nowhere near as many tradespeople. And, you know, at that point, I’m not even sure there was a female operating technician or, you know, a power engineer. So there is additional change that’s needed. But there’s certainly—it seems to be the right time. Certainly we’re seeing lots of organizations stepping in, having conversations with us, and even wondering how we can help them, you know, move that needle forward.

Jen Hancock:

So on that note, can you tell us about just a little bit about the history of the organization and what is the mission, what does it stand for? You transitioned from a career at Dow to Women Building Futures. So maybe start with what Women Building Futures is, and then maybe you might talk a little bit about how you came to be in the position you’re in right now.

Carol Moen:

People often mistakenly think that our ultimate mission is really to just diversity the face of industry. And I think that diversification of industry is, you know, it’s a wonderful secondary outcome of the work that we do, but it’s definitely not the driving priority.

It’s a neat story. Women Building Futures started more than 20 years ago. They were actually started by a group of social workers who were, you know, trying to support high-risk unemployed women that were often single mothers. And they wanted to connect them to secure employment. And, you know, where was secure employment? And also, where was economic security—so well-paying employment? It was in the trades. And there was absolutely no reason why women couldn’t train and—and be successful in the trades. And—and it’s exactly the same situation today. There continues to be tremendous opportunity in the trades itself.

So as we’re doing the social side of our work, and trying to, you know, work really hard to connect women to secure futures, and have them gain confidence and take control of their lives, a really, really beautiful secondary outcome is that, while we’re doing that, realistically we’re slowly starting to sort of change the face and the heart of industry as a whole.

So for me, having navigated a career where I was often in roles that were, ah, historically roles that were filled by men, it’s just a wonderful, wonderful spot I find myself in—where all of the women that we serve have many more barriers in front of them than I ever had. Not that I didn’t have any; I did. But they have so many more. So for me, at this point in my career, being able to, you know, leverage my experience, turn it into some passion—and I’m truly passionate for every woman that moves through our programs—it’s a pretty exceptional privilege for me to be here and doing this.

Jen Hancock:

What a great amazing history. And I love that it’s not just a diversified industry but that it actually was filling a need for women sort of at-risk…

Carol Moen:

Yeah.

Jen Hancock:

… who needed career security, really.

Carol Moen:

Absolutely. Like, the women have to go through a process to come into our programs and, you know, make sure that they are ready to grow, ready to learn, but that they—you know, that we can get them ready for employment. But, you know, we’re not an employment agency. We don’t guarantee them a job. As they’re moving through our programs, we connect them to our employers of choice; and they earn those jobs. They do that themselves.

So it’s an exceptional network. We refer to it as a bit of, you know, wrap-around support—right from, “Are you ready?” to getting you ready for your interview day, and then providing that support continually after they move out into the workforce as well too, to make sure that things are going well. Because we don’t just want to get them out there, we want them to stay there. So.

Jen Hancock:

I’m assuming you have a lot more women apply for the program than what you actually have, you know, the ability to intake. How do you go through a vetting process to make sure that the program is a great match for the candidates going through?

Carol Moen:

We run a variety of different programs, Jen, but there are some very consistent components to it. And with the pandemic and so many unemployed women across the province, obviously our focus right now is on getting women back to work. We have, historically, also worked hard to focus on what we’ve referred to as under-employed women as well too—so women that could be working two or three jobs to try and get by, and also raising a family, and struggling to do that. So we work hard to serve both of those demographics.

We have a fairly simple application process, initially. But because everyone’s situation is a little bit different, we rely very heavily on conversation early on. So we have admissions and enrollment officers that meet one-on-one with the applicants, and have conversations, and understand their readiness for our programs. If there’s challenges going on in their lives that, you know, perhaps they’re not quite ready yet, we also have some readiness supports that we can provide as well. Many women coming into our program are sometimes intimidated by, you know, the math side of things, which is an important and very critical part of trades. Right? They need to be able to pass the AIT Exam to move forward. So we spend time with them, on and on, making sure that they’re ready.

You know, our focus is not only lifting women but also making sure—because we, you know, we don’t have unending resources and funds—also making sure that, you know, we have relative assuredness that, you know, with some work, and time, and mentoring, and coaching, and building, that they’re going to be successful, they’re going to be able to move to employment.

Jen Hancock:

You also work with employers, and you vet employers. What does that look like, and why? What’s the need to do that? Why not just help women get a job anywhere?

Carol Moen:

We do have employers that wish to come to interview day and hire someone. They need help, and they want to diversify their workforce. And often, what we’ll do in those situations is say, “You know, hey, why don’t we work with you. Let’s have a conversation about where you and your organization or company are at. And then we can decide how we want to move forward.” And over the years, we learned really well that connecting a woman to an employment, getting her employed, isn’t valuable for her for secure long-term employment unless she wants to stay in that workforce or stay in that trade.

So the Employer of Choice program was born out of this concept of making sure that the employers that we align with share our values of health and safety, respect and inclusion, obviously equity in gender, and also growth and advancement. And the neat part of that process is it helps them understand truly where they’re at on the whole inclusivity and diversity journey, and where there are some areas of opportunity. You know, for example, with our Journeywoman Start program, which normally pre-COVID was running about 18 women at a time through that program, we would probably have 6 or 8 employers of choice that would join us on interview day—which is graduation day—and participate in discussions with all the women in that program. They would determine where some of the good fits are, extend some offers, and then we would have just a high level of confidence that those women are moving into good organizations and that they’ll stay there.

Jen Hancock:

I think that really speaks to companies who are looking more seriously at diversity, equity, inclusion, you can’t just generally speaking go out and just hire people that fit into that whatever that is and expect that it’s going to just—your company is going to transform immediately. There’s a whole culture piece. There’s a whole—oftentimes, you’ve got to really look internal to make sure that you’re ready for that. It’s a huge benefit to an organization. But I love that you’re working with companies to make sure that, you know, asking them questions so that they can assess readiness but maybe have some support themselves.

Carol Moen:

Yeah. You know, we hear feedback, actually, from a lot of companies that we’re working with that, you know, having women in their teams and on their work sites makes it a better work site. The women on the crews are interested in their team members. You know, they’ll team-build. They’re caretaking. They follow instructions. They ask questions; you know, “Why are we doing things this way?” They take great care of equipment. They manage things like their own. So if you have a very diverse crew that includes women and, you know, includes people with that type of mindset, ultimately it’s going to result in a much more positive outcome for the work sites and the organizations as well too. And we hear that all the time.

Jen Hancock:

And unfortunately, I think, you know, stats in the construction industry, still women in the trade side still maybe around six per cent—six to eight per cent of women in trades. Still way too low. And yes, agree that teams that have, you know, women in the field, it absolutely makes them better.

So on that note, you’ve had a lot of women come through your program. Do you have any—maybe a story you might pass along of one of your success stories of a woman that’s been through the program who had a major impact on her life?

Carol Moen:

You know, one of my very favourite times is going to graduation day. And we do have a formal graduation for every one of our classes. And I still remember the very first one that I went to. It was one of our Journeywoman Start programs and a very diverse class. I walked into the room and there were kleenexes—kleenex boxes all over the room. And I thought, “What the heck? This is, you know, it’s just a graduation.” And I was in my role for maybe a month and, you know, a few people that I was standing beside just looked at me and said, “Just wait.” (laughs)

And so as we go through that graduation ceremony and, you know, celebrate with those women, the impact that the work that we do and the work that they do beside us just has a profound impact on their lives. That first one I was at, I still remember. There was two or three women that had little kids wrapped around their legs. They could barely speak about the doors that this was going to open for them. And I mean, if you open a door for a woman and connect her to secure employment, you’re doing the same thing for her kids. They’re going to see her working hard, building her future, and moving forward, and they’re going to do the same thing. So the impacts are multi-generational.

But I do have, actually, one specific story that I would love to share. And that’s about Keeley. Keeley graduated from Women Building Futures in 2011. And she moved through an apprenticeship, ultimately attaining her Red Seal in B Pressure Welding certification. A single mum. And recognized herself, even at that point—I mean, she was successful but—recognized herself at that point that she wanted to diversify a bit in order to ensure that, you know, regardless of the situation that, you know, she was always going to be employable. So just, I mean, so, so commendable.

So she looked at the rope access industry. As she was progressing through the rope access industry, you know, she noticed that during that time period never once had she had a single female rope access instructor, or mentor, or anything like that. So as she was maneuvering her own career, she had a mission herself: to make sure that those that were following behind her wouldn’t have that same experience.

So Keeley and Women Building Futures actually started up a partnership where we run rope access courses. Keeley does all the training. She’s certified in doing that. It’s one-of-a-kind. So, you know, we’ve run a couple of training opportunities already. It’s an all-female cohort, and it’s being trained completely by a female certified—Level 3 certified rope access tech. So just a really, really cool story.

Keeley’s daughter has been watching her maneuver through all of this. And it’s had a massive, massive impact on her. And actually, Keeley shared recently that, as a result, her daughter has decided to follow in her footsteps. So the two of them will probably be the only, at least in Canada, the only mother-daughter, you know, rope access certified duo across the country. So it’s a pretty cool story.

So, you know, she’s a single mother, Red Seal and, you know, B Pressure Welder, and she’s one of only 120 Level 3 rope access certified female techs worldwide—in the midst of tens of thousands of men. You know, when you see stories, when you hear stories like that, it’s just so incredible to, you know, really fully understand the impact of the work that we do and how, you know, that lasting impact onto the next generation really takes place.

Jen Hancock:

Yeah, what a powerful story, again, that the impact on the kids and to see her daughter following in her footsteps, that’s exactly what you would want to see. And then for her to provide that leadership back to your community and other women looking at trades, what an also great mentor, and leader, and inspiration for the rest of women coming through your program. Just one of them. I’m sure there’s many, many that you have—successful women—coming out of your program.

Carol Moen:

Yeah. We ah, we really do enjoy sharing the stories coming out of the program. And that’s not…. I mean, we—we do need to continue to build awareness of the work, so that women know that they can reach out to us—right—for some support. So we rely on the stories to help women who, you know, maybe aren’t sure what that fit is—you know, whether or not it is a really good fit. So yeah, it’s just a very satisfying experience to work through and understand all those lasting impacts.

Jen Hancock:

And that point—stories are, they’re so important. I know, personally, that when I was going through high school, I don’t even think trades were presented as much of an option. It was a career, I guess, but it certainly wasn’t presented as something that women were doing. It wasn’t something I considered. And I think we need more success stories. That’s how we have to grow the diversity across the construction industry, because it’s just I don’t think enough women know what an amazing career construction and trades can be.

Carol Moen:

Absolutely. And they can do it. Right? I mean, so many women have proved that there’s no reason why they can’t. And it’s—it’s secure employment. You know, I believe I mentioned that many women, after they graduate our program and become employed, they’re actually making two-and-a-half times what they were making pre-program. So it’s life-changing for them and their families.

And this is certainly beyond Women Building Futures but in just in general. And it gets back to your comment, Jen, about women need to understand that trades are a good thing—that there’s no reason why they can’t go into trades. Our demographic that we serve normally is about, you know, age 25 to 34. And often it’s individuals that have tried something else. Right?

Jen Hancock:

Last year, COVID has had huge impacts on everybody. And there’s been a lot of discussion around that women have been more impacted in many ways. Have you seen any difference in some of the women coming through your program? Just on the other side of that, what’s the impact on COVID been on your—the women that you serve?

Carol Moen:

The impact has been massive. Obviously women have been disproportionately impacted in the pandemic. You know, I think the numbers are close to 70 per cent of the people that lost their jobs were women. We started our programs after COVID in August 2020. And to the end of this month, the end of June, we’ll have graduated 200 women and, you know, connected more than 80 per cent of them to very impactful, secure employment. And a lot of those women, when they tell their stories on orientation day, a lot of them are pivoting out of the service industry, hospitality industry—many of them that were, you know, managing multiple jobs to try and get by, and then they’re, you know, they were focused very much, you know, multiple restaurants or multiple different service industry companies, but they all stopped at the same time.

You know, we’ve actually had several women move in previously from the airline industry: ground crew; or women that were, you know, working on equipment to help, you know, maintain the airports; even a stewardess, a flight attendant. So we’ve seen a really, really diverse group of unemployed women coming through. And it’s, you know, many of the women that we serve are single mothers. And you know, I almost think that “many” is an understatement. Like, just—just today, you know, we moved a program into Calgary, and listening to the women that how excited and thankful they were coming to that table. There was like 80 or 90 per cent of them that were single mothers and actually, you know, working to regain their economic stability so that they could have it for their families as well. So those women were actually moving, ah, or will be moving into the Class 1 driving industry, moving out of the hospitality sector. It’s really, really interesting to see where they’re all coming from.

Jen Hancock:

Listening to the impact this has, what would you say to a company who might be thinking about this but hasn’t worked with Women Building Futures or, I guess, just in general, thinking about sort of diversity, equity, and inclusion? But, you know, if they were come to the table, what would you say for someone who hasn’t done it yet?

Carol Moen:

So, I went through that direct experience recently, Jen, and, you know, was talking with a company—a great company—but was talking with a company, you know, as I mentioned before, that really thought our work was just simply to diversify the workforce. And when we shared our history, you know, where Women Building Futures came from and, you know, the barriers that are in front of so many women that come into our programs—whether or not it’s unemployment, or whether or not it’s safe and affordable housing, or childcare, or support with mat, like I mean just so many barriers—and ultimately with some support to clear those barriers, they don’t move in to secure employment. You know, they continue, possibly in some cases, on government assistance or moving around from job to job. So what I found is when great employers, great companies, really understand that social side of what we’re trying to do, they want to help. They want to step in. And then knowing that that whole social return on investment can actually translate to true, tangible benefits on their work site with culture and all of that, the conversation just changes completely. And it’s almost as if, “Okay. How can we get involved? What do we need to do?”

Jen Hancock:

So really the key there is the personal social impacts, the economic security for the women, and then on the other side you get a stronger, high-performing team because you’ve added diversity—probably someone who brings a wholely different perspective and skillset to your site. So for any companies not doing that, get on it.

Carol Moen:

Yeah. And you know, things have changed since Women Building Futures started all those 20 years ago. You know, I mentioned that, you know, we had to try and pull companies to the table and now, you know, a lot of people get it and they really do want to be involved. My understanding, at that point in time when women graduated from our programs, we would tell them, “Go fit it. Don’t make any ripples. Just go there; work hard; you know, put your head down; just keep going.” And we give the opposite advice today. You know, we tell women to show up at those work sites and be their genuine self. Because that’s—that’s…. And that’s not just for them; you know, it’s for their work crews, it’s for their companies. And when everyone comes to work as their genuine self, that’s where you get the true value.

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Jen Hancock:

That was Carol Moen, President and CEO at Women Building Futures.

Thanks so much for listening to this episode. It really hit home for me. And I hope it made an impact on you too. We’ve got plenty more Building Good to come. So hit the “Follow” button. And if you like what we’re doing here and want to help us build good, leave a rating or a review, or just tell a friend about the show. It helps other people find us, and we love reading your reviews.

Building Good is a Vocal Fry Studios production. The executive producer is Jay Cockburn. Our associate producer is Kattie Laur, with production assistance from Jessica Loughlin. I’m Jen Hancock. Thanks for listening.