Rethinking road space w/ Dana O’Born

Geoff Capelle:

We’re starting this episode of Building Good by putting our producer, Jay, on a bike.

Jay Cockburn:

Okay. I’m biking down College. Nice protected bike lane here, so I feel good and safe.

Geoff Capelle:

He’s using a hands-free microphone. Ride safe, Jay.

Jay Cockburn:

Well-separated from both the cars and the streetcars on my left, and pedestrians on the right. I can see, there’s the Free Times Café here. Going past all the nice bars, restaurants, and shops in the Annex.

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Jay Cockburn:

Oh, here we go, though. I need a—I’m in a sort of pylon(??, 00:36) section(??) of the road. Coming up on my right, here, I have some construction and the bike lane just ends. So I’m sticking my arm out to my left and swerving into traffic. And now I’m stuck in traffic like any other car.

[traffic noise]

Jay Cockburn:

I am traffic. I’m stuck in traffic.

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Geoff Capelle:

If you go to any major city in Canada right now, you’ll see a lot of construction. Our city cores are getting denser, which means more people, but our roads aren’t getting any wider. And cars aren’t getting any smaller; in North America, they’re actually getting bigger.

Geoff Capelle:

More cars and the same amount of road space means that driving is becoming a pretty bad way of getting around the city.

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Geoff Capelle:

You can’t fight geometry.

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Geoff Capelle:

This is Building Good. I’m Geoff Capelle.

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Geoff Capelle:

Instead of fighting geometry, we need to work with the space we have between the evergrowing towers of our downtown cores. One way we do that is building more public transit but this can be expensive and takes a long time to build.

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Geoff Capelle:

We can run more buses. Those are a great option. But when traffic is bad, in many cities they’re still stuck in it.

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Geoff Capelle:

Or, we take away the engines entirely.

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Dana O’Born:

I’m a full-time, full year-round cyclist. I ride in the winter. Whether it be for groceries, or getting around, or getting to and from work, if I need to, I use my bike for everything.

Geoff Capelle:

This is Dana O’Born. She’s the chair of the board of Cycle Toronto.

Dana O’Born:

We are a charitable organization that advocates for road and cycling safety. But me, personally, I live in the city. I am an avid cyclist—indoors and outdoors. I’m a spin instructor as well.

Geoff Capelle:

Bike lanes are cheap and they get people out of cars onto a much smaller, cleaner mode of transportation. And you don’t get stuck in traffic.

Dana O’Born:

The best thing about riding your bike is that you are effectively able to arrive to where you need to be within a margin of about five to ten minutes versus public transit, which is often unpredictable, full stop. And same thing with a car.

Geoff Capelle:

This might surprise a lot of people. But if you live in the city and you open up Google Maps or Citymapper, check the travel time for your commute. A bike might be your fastest option.

Dana O’Born:

I think traffic in the city has just become very challenging for motorists, cyclists, pedestrians, everybody. Getting around on a bike is absolutely the fastest, ah, not always the safest but certainly the fastest way to get from Point A to Point B.

Geoff Capelle:

Dana makes a key point there about safety. Ask your friends why they don’t cycle. I bet at least will say they’re scared. Whether it’s bad drivers, construction sites, iced-over roads, there are plenty of hazards.

I get it. I was riding my own bike in a bike lane when a passenger opened their door without checking. I hit that door, flew over top of it and straight into the hospital. I’m still rebuilding my confidence but safer cycling infrastructure would help.

So I know why I think we should build bike lanes, but I wanted to start by asking Dana why she thinks we should.

Dana O’Born:

I guess, you know, the question is: why not? And we just had a quick touch on how frustrating the city is getting—Toronto is getting to move around. There’s lots more congestion, a lot of cars on the road, a lot of construction happening—I know we’re going to get into that.

You know, cities are—are a place of high density, with a lot of people. And we have to think about how we accommodate road spaces for all types of road users. So pedestrians—of course sidewalks have been institutionalized and we’re accustomed to, you know, the roadways and the userways of sidewalks. And then we have our roadways, of course, for cars and trucks and all motor vehicles.

We have to start thinking about changing the way that we offer alternatives for people to move around the city, and make those alternatives safer.

And we have to remember that you own a bike, you get a bike, you borrow a bike, the cost of riding a bike is a lot cheaper for most people in the city. And that is an accessibility, that is an affordability issue that needs to be a part of the discussion.

But we need bike lanes to create more availability, more accessibility, more affordability, and, frankly, a more livable city.

I think more safety for bikes on roads makes a city great. You know, you go to places like Denmark, even London in the UK, the cycling infrastructure and the culture there has changed so much over the last five years, even. And it just makes a city. It makes a city feel more open, more fun, to be honest, and more accessible even for pedestrians. It’s just a lot less intimidating when you have cyclists passing by you on the road versus these big trucks.

So it’s kind of that if-you-build-it-they-will-come narrative. And the truth is that it’s really the case in a lot of North American cities, especially those, like Toronto, that are really battling significant congestion and affordability issues right now.

Geoff Capelle:

You mentioned that “if you build it they will come.” Can you speak to some of the data on bike lanes when they’ve been constructed and ridership as they start to be adopted by people?

Dana O’Born:

Well, I think the pandemic was a really great example. And we saw ridership go up in Toronto almost ten-fold. And there was a couple of reasons for that. And I think, quite obviously, people didn’t want to hop on public transit. Beyond that, I think people were trying to discover alternative methods of getting around the city and also just trying new things out.

And bike shops across the city—this is a great indicator—bike shops across the city could not keep stock fast enough for bikes, new materials, any tools that—that were needed for cyclists to repair their bikes or whatever. It was crazy.

I remember calling my local shop and saying, “I’m starting to get back into it. Winter’s over. Can I bring my bike in to get fixed up in the shop?” “Yeah, we don’t have anything available for six weeks for an appointment.” Just to get—for a tune-up.

So people are starting to bike a lot more. And I think the cool thing about the residual from the pandemic and people getting on bikes and moving outside is that it’s kind of struck. There’s an initial fear of getting on a bike. And they say once you learn you can always remember how to ride it. That’s true. But you have to feel safe doing it.

We just saw a huge uptick, which also then created this larger discussion around advocacy in the city of Toronto for more bike lanes. It created a huge expansion in network. I think there was something like 25 kilometres added, alone, in the 2 years post-pandemic. We’ve also seen a lot of new safety measures taking place to protect bike lanes.

So whether that be new paint, or new protected bike lanes, the shifting of bike lanes, the addition of bike lanes, right across the city, whether we like it or not, I think cycling is here to stay. But I think that there’s still a lot of progress that needs to be made on this front.

Geoff Capelle:

Many Canadian cities are very car-centric. And you have a lot of people who have lived in those cities who do own a car who drive most places. What would you say to those drivers if they’re not cyclists? How would you—how would you rationalize these bike lanes being put in to them?

Dana O’Born:

I think when it comes to talking about cycling to drivers, it’s a real piece that kind of comes and emulates around safety, right? And—and sharing the road. You know, it’s difficult when you’re an exclusive driver and you kind of only have the windshield as your pane of expression to view how you use the road. But I think it’s really important to talk about the safety element, and talk about the fact that more and more cyclists are coming on the road and that there’s a responsibility on both sides. So there’s responsibility of the driver and of course there’s a responsbility of the cyclist to use the road safely as well.

It's hard, as you know, on sort of any front, to kind of convince somebody out of their own opinion, especially if it’s something that they’ve been doing for most of their lives, which, you know, drivers, let’s be honest, have been.

But there have been some really fun and interesting examples where we see cycling advocacy organizations kind of pushing the dial and encouraging politicians to get out of their car and get on the bike. And I think when you see people who are sitting in positions of power doing things like that, it also has an impact on road users, full stop.

When you see people of power doing those things, it kind of opens your mind and gives you a second thought of, “Oh, wait a minute. Maybe I have not been as responsible or sort of attentive on the road as a non-cyclist.”

So it’s kind of hard to change the dial from drivers to cyclists. And there is a bit of a tension that does exist in a lot of urban centres around who has access to the road and right-of-way and things like that at certain times. I think at the end of the day, it’s really about dialogue and conversation. But I also think governments have a responsibility to educate people, and include signage, and give advance notice, and—and all of those pieces as well.

Geoff Capelle:

Do you find that, as we put in these bike lanes, it means people are making that active choice to get out of their cars and get on a bike? Are there fewer cars on the road? Or is that a hard thing to say?

Dana O’Born:

Oh, I think that’s a hard thing to say. I don’t think that there are fewer cars on the road. In fact, if we use the example of Toronto, I think there are more cars on the road. And, you know, a 20-minute car ride for across the city 5 years ago was now has turned into a 45-minute car ride across the city. And that again is a reason (laughing a little) to start thinking about cycling.

But back to the point I made earlier, you know, if you build it they will come. If people really understood, I think, the dynamic or the change or the time that they could save hopping on a bike, that would make a real difference.

It is not just about hopping on a bike and saying, “Okay, I’m going to transition from my car to—to being a cyclist or hopping on my bike.” It’s a lot more than that. You know, people have to think about the planning. “Where am I going to put my bag?” “Where am I going to park my bike?” “How quickly can I get ready to go outside, you know, by adding all these extra layers? If I hop in my car, I don’t even need to put a jacket on.”

There’s a certain comfort, I think, about driving cars. You pop yourself in, you put your coffee in the holder, you put the radio on, and you get going, and you don’t really have to think.

Cycling does take a little bit more effort. But I also think the more you do it, the less effort it takes.

Geoff Capelle:

So when someone hops on their bike, there’s quite a bit of benefit to them. You’re at your destination faster. You’re doing something good for your health. But in cities, how does providing cycling infrastructure benefit a town or that city as a whole?

Dana O’Born:

Well, I think the easy thing (laughs) is to go to the emotional side and think: less frustration, right across the board. You know, like, “I feel good when I get off my bike. I feel less frustrated. I’m ready to tackle my day.” But that doesn’t always translate into how we talk about a movable city.

So. I think building infrastructure, as I mentioned before, is a key element to making a city more livable. Raised cycling lanes along sidewalks. Protected bike lanes along sidewalks, sort of between traffic and—and pedestrian.

If we truly think about some of the great cities in the world, I think about New York, I think about London, Toronto is the fourth largest city in North America. We’re just behind Mexico City, as well, which, by the way, has awesome cycling infrastructure. It’s so much more than just about the infrastructure.

So. Recently I was in Denmark. And we all know it’s sort of the cycling country of the world. And Copenhagen has great cycling infrastructure. And I talked to a friend there that’s a lawyer, and I said, “You know, like, what gets people on bikes here?” And she said, “It’s really a cultural thing.” And so there’s this sort of cultural piece that’s really ingrained in Danish culture, where it’s pedestrian first, cycling second, cars third.

And I think when you approach using roads and roadways in that sense, it kind of just creates a different appetite for how people move. And it’s just accepted.

You know, you look at a city like Toronto—and I, I, I hate to keep bragging on Toronto because I know that there’s, you know, some movement happening in different cities across the country but—again there’s just this, “Oh, these—these cyclists are just taking up the roadways.” And look, there are some cyclists that are not always following the rules, and I get that. And we have to also make sure that as a community we’re correcting ourselves to be able to accomplish what we want. But I think it really comes down to a cultural sort of approach in terms of, like: what do we want our cities to look like? How do we want people to move safely and effectively?

And, like I said before, it really starts at the top with a lot of our politicians and taking that conversation out to the people and having really (inaudible, 13:17) honest conversations about what that looks like in a safe and equitable way.

Geoff Capelle:

Well, and you can make that same comment about drivers as well. There are the drivers that are crazy, cutting through lanes, not signalling. But do they represent everyone? And is it a reason to stop using cars? Probably not.

Dana O’Born:

The one difference on that front is that a car is a huge piece of equipment that has the ability to do a lot more harm than a cyclist.

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Geoff Capelle:

We’ll be right back.

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Geoff Capelle:

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Geoff Capelle:

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[music]

Geoff Capelle:

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[music]

Geoff Capelle:

You were talking a bit about it, but what makes for good cycling infrastructure?

Dana O’Born:

I think the biggest thing is protected bike lanes. And I think most people would say that. You have bike paint. There’s merging lanes. Of course, you know, a city can’t accommodate across its entire network of cycling protected bike lanes but at the end of the day that is the safest mode of—of cycling infrastructure. A car being unable to actually physically move into the bike lane is the best way that you can protect cyclists for moving around the city.

Geoff Capelle:

You mentioned that Edmonton is making good strides in the right way on bike infrastructure. What are they doing well?

Dana O’Born:

So I was out there about a year-and-a-half ago, in the wintertime. And I think the first thing I noticed was that the bike lanes had been plowed before the roadways had, one morning. And I was meeting a friend for coffee, and he’s an avid cyclist too. And I said to him, I said, “You know, it was so awesome to see that the bike lanes had been plowed before the roadways had this morning.” He said, “Yeah, it’s actually quite common here. And it’s—it’s sort of an incentivizer to get people biking to work more frequently.”

So I’ve seen a lot of separated bike lanes in the City of Edmonton. There’s just a lot more talk about including cyclists into the larger city infrastructure. But I think, from a Canadian perspective, it’s pretty cool to say that your bike lane is going to be plowed before the rest of the roadways.

So. (inaudible, 15:43) that’s not necessarily a full infrastructure piece. But a lot of separated bike lanes. A lot more talk of cycling in Edmonton. And it’s interesting, I talk to other cyclists from Montreal or—or Toronto or even Denmark, and they’re, “Edmonton, really. That’s so interesting that cycling is becoming a thing there.”

But other parts of Alberta have done some very cool things when it comes to cycling. And I think it’s also becoming a bit of a ecotourism attraction in Alberta. And so why have it in rural parts of Alberta and not in the city centres to help people get around?

Geoff Capelle:

Can you speak to me a little bit about e-bikes? I see them more often in bike lanes. Some of them are getting quite large. They go faster. But they also seem like an important part of mobililty as far a more affordable way to get people places and, ah, good for longer durations.

Dana O’Born:

Very interesting topic. There is again, I think, sometimes—and I’m not saying all the time—sometimes a little bit of tension between non-electric bikes and—and electric bikes, in terms of, you know, their speed and—and how they use bike lanes. But at the end of the day they’re bikes. And there are a lot of people who have started using e-bikes as a sort of precursor to getting on a regular bike. And that’s great. And there are also a lot of people who are using e-bikes who may be less mobile or able. I’ve seen a lot of moms on e-bikes; I mean, if you’re lugging around a kid on the front or the back of your bike, it’s a heavy weight.

They move faster. I definitely notice this when I’m in a bike lane. But they are still part of the cycling mix. So if that is a gateway—your gateway bike for cycling, I support that.

There are some really great e-bike, ah, companies and shops across the city of Toronto, as well, that are really trying to institute a culture of cycling. They sell e-bikes and they sell regular bikes.

But I think, you know, the hardcore cyclist will say, “Well, it’s not really cycling. It’s, you know, with a motor on it, it’s still a form of a motor vehicle.” But people need to get around the city.

And we’ve talked about traffic, we’ve talked about congestion. And a major force of a lot of these e-bikes are actually food delivery services. And a lot of those food delivery services have sort of joined the quote/unquote “fight” for better cycling infrastructure and cycling safety.

And so if we’re all kind of rowing—or maybe I should say “cycling”—in the same direction, advocating for better and safer roadways whether you have a small little engine on—on the back of your bike or not, we’re all fighting for the same thing.

So it’s an interesting dynamic, for sure. But I think again it’s—it’s about education, it’s about cities making accommodations. And again, in my personal opinion, I think if it encourages people to get on bikes then it’s a good thing.

Geoff Capelle:

I want to talk a little bit about attitudes towards cycling. Because I think there are different kinds of anti-cycling attitudes. First, there’s the classic road rage get-out-my-way type one. But there’s another one that I think many people will have without even noticing it, which is the idea that cars take priority. Can you talk to me about how that might manifest in the city?

Dana O’Born:

Yeah, it’s a great question and kind of dovetails back to what I had mentioned before about the culture that the Danes take on in Copenhagen, about who is first.

And so pedestrians, as I mentioned, are, you know, at the top of the pedestal, cyclists in—in the middle, and—and cars at the bottom. And by no means am I advocating for a car-free city. But I always think about how we can make space for people to shift attitudes about how we use roadways.

And so, yeah, there’s a lot of angry people when it comes to cyclists in the city. And I always kind of think to myself, “So you’re going to speed by me or you’re going to speed by a cyclist to, what, save 10 seconds only to arrive at a red light 40 metres down the street?”

It’s a bigger discussion because, you know, this comment about road rage is not just about blaming the cyclists. Everybody feels like we need to blame somebody or something when we’re not getting what we need or what we’re used to. And what we were used to five years ago in the city of Toronto was a—being able to predictably get from Point A to Point B in the time that Google Maps told us. And now we can’t. It takes, I would argue, double the time to almost get anywhere across the city if you’re driving a car. And that is frustrating. That is very frustrating—if you’re trying to get your kid to said lesson, if you’re trying to get to a workout, if you’re trying to get to work—for a number of reasons.

And so that frustration, I feel, is building on the road. Compound that with having a slew of new cyclists on the road who are ostensibly eating up space on the road where it should be for cars. And there is this tension that has built that it is bike lanes are cyclists’ fault.

I think a really good example is Yonge Street. Yonge Street used to be two lanes. It was fast-paced, north-south. And they implemented some bike lanes—some temporary bike lanes as a pilot, and now those lanes have become permanent. And the pushback on keeping those lanes was ridiculous.

You know, you would see things on social media of people blatantly going out and taking photos of the bike lane and posting them and saying, “There’s no cyclists here. Look at all this traffic.” And it was just this juxtaposition that was sort of an attack on—on a cyclist.

And interestingly enough, there’s a lot of small businesses and restaurants that benefit from cyclists slowing down and coming through and—and the reduced car traffic, because it puts people on feet, it puts people on bikes.

Going back to my earlier point, Field of Dreams, “If you build it they will come,” these things take time. And I think that that saying has a lot more to it than just building the infrastructure. It’s also about building the culture around cycling.

Geoff Capelle:

Let’s talk a little bit more about construction and bike lanes. If you bike across Toronto, where I live right now, there’s a fair amount of bike lanes. But you’re often forced out of them by construction. So maybe just set the scene for someone who doesn’t ride a bike. What does construction often get wrong about cycling?

Dana O’Born:

I take a deep sign on this one. Because it’s also a challenging conversation because there’s a lot of construction happening in the city of Toronto. It is impacting bike lanes for sure. There’s the macro issue that construction is good for a city. A lot of new housing units are going up which is a big part of, you know, creating a more livable city that if people live and work downtown they can eliminate a car and maybe hop on a bike. You know, maybe that’s part of their lifestyle. So.

But construction sites themselves are often challenging. I would say a few things. One: it often takes over the sidewalk, so it creates challenges for pedestrians and cyclists if there is a bike lane in that space. It pushes pedestrians into the bike lane, or an added bike lane, and then it pushes cyclists out into traffic. And that is necessary, I get that. But what is challenging about that is that it’s often not as safe as, you know, obviously the protected bike lanes that we talked about before, but there’s a lot of debris that kind of hangs out along construction sites. We all know that. That debris kind of makes its way onto the road and—and it makes it more challenging for cyclists to get past those construction zones. Whether it be some gravel or, you know, more potholes because there’s a lot of heavy equipment moving in and out of the construction site that’s impacting the pavement. All of those things, you know, create a less safe condition for a bike, and even, you know, a pedestrian of course, using those adjacent construction zone spaces as they’re making their way past it.

So there’s been some push to get the City of Toronto to think about how it’s creating penalties and enforcement for construction zones across the city. And do I think it’s going well? No. And there have been a lot of reports of, you know, cyclists getting hurt in construction zones. Adelaide is a really good example. They’ve shifted the bike lane from south to north, and people are getting caught up in some of the tracks; and that’s really unsafe. And when I say “tracks,” I mean streetcar tracks.

So construction zones can pose huge amount of safety concerns for cyclists and pedestrians as they make their way past them or across them. But I think that there are a lot of solutions to creating better safety around these construction zones that we may not be leveraging or using in cities like Toronto.

Geoff Capelle:

What could construction companies do to be better friends to cyclists?

Dana O’Born:

I think advance notice on construction sites is a huge thing. So, it’s very frustrating when you’re biking along and all of a sudden it says, you know, “Merge immediately” or “Bike lane closed.” And you think, “Well, it would’ve been really nice to have known this, you know, 50 metres back, because I would’ve taken a left or I would’ve taken a right or I would’ve hopped on another—another street.” And so that advance notice and more signage is definitely something that can be considered.

Alternate routes and accommodations are also very welcomed. And the signage for that is—is great.

I get, you know, I’m not going to hop on the Internet every time I hop—before I hop on my bike and look at what routes are closed. But advance notice on busy bike lane traffic roadways I think would be really helpful.

The second is around clean and safe construction sites. So, I love to use the analogy that most construction—I shouldn’t say “most,” you work in construction. You’re not going to go on unsafe working site; it’s illegal. You know, if there’s no washroom, or if there’s no helmet for you to wear, if it there’s a risk because there’s a gaping hole at the entrance of the construction zone that makes it unsafe for workers to enter, you’re not going to go to work, and you don’t have to, and nor should you be forced to. So if there’s unsafe working conditions on the site, why are we creating unsafe working conditions site-adjacent?

And so the comment I made before about debris that often makes its way into the bike lanes, at the end of the day, or twice-a-day, or three-times-a-day, we should have somebody out there just sweeping or monitoring and making sure that there’s nothing in those bike lanes. No fallen pylons or pieces of wood. I’ve frequently stopped and picked up a piece and moved it over. You know, big chunks of cement. Whatever the case may be, they could pose a risk. And I think that is on the construction company, because those materials are the responsibility of—of the construction company that is working on that site.

I also think the cities or the regulatory bodies who are monitoring these construction zones have a responsibility to work in tandem, work side-by-side with these construction zones to ensure that there’s alternative routes, that there’s temporary paint that’s laid down.

One thing I think that would be really helpful—or two things, actually. One that they leverage in, in Denmark, is putting temporary speedbumps in the construction zone for cars so they actually slow down construction zone—zone adjacent—which I would also feel like might give the construction zone workers a bit of relief, because cars flying by construction zones is not safe for anybody, whether you’re working there or just passing by on a bike—temporary paints along the side of the construction zone would be really helpful, temporary dividers, and just more signage. And then the second thing is also you can get these sort of temporary covers for streetcar tracks that help cyclists move across the streetcar tracks that don’t impact the way that the streetcar moves along the roadway; and that in itself would be also very helpful if there is a reason that the cyclist has to merge into a roadway that has streetcar tracks and they don’t risk sort of falling into them or getting their wheels caught in, in there. So lots of things, I think, that can be leveraged that we just don’t.

In Montreal they have what is called a Mobility Squad. It’s a group of people that move around to different construction sites, making sure that sort of everybody is keeping things clean and—and, I guess, supporting the safety of the site. And that includes making sure that the roadways are safe for pedestrians, cyclists, and road users as well. So you know, something like that could be really cool in a city like Toronto. I—I don’t see why not.

It’s really about enforcement at the end of the day. And yes, we need to build more and grow more in a city like Toronto, but there are effective and safe ways of—of doing that to protect all road users.

Geoff Capelle:

I really like your comment about safety, because that is our top priority on construction sites. And tying that lens to cyclists and—and users of the general area seems like a very—a very fitting way of doing it.

Is there a benefit to construction companies beyond it just being the right thing to do, by being more cyclist-friendly?

Dana O’Born:

Well, I would love to know how many construction zone workers maybe even bike to work. Like do we know those numbers? I have seen construction site workers hopping on one of the city’s shared bikes or even on bikes getting down to—to zones. Wouldn’t it be cool if construction companies said, “Hey, we’ve got ten free bikes. If you’re, you know, a construction zone worker, you can leverage these while we’re working on this project.”

It's hard to just say, “How do we incentivize one class of workers to think about cycling safety?” It’s a responsibility of all of ours—whether you’re working on a construction site, working at a local retail shop, working in landscaping, whatever the case may be—but I would assume that most of the construction workers that are working in urban centres are not coming from very far, which means that they’ve got to get to and from work as well. So sure, if there is a way that construction companies can incentivize their employees to take a bike to work, that would be really cool.

But at the end of the day, the greater accommodation or the greater support that any construction company can make to appease cyclists—and I’m not saying that they need to go above-and-beyond but—to say that we really care about your safety around construction sites is going to also make cyclists feel more appreciated, seen. And I think that’s really important.

And I’ve seen, you know, some construction zones have, you know, construction workers kind of standing outside and by virtue of using a “Stop” sign or a “Slow” sign those things have a real impact on the way that cyclists feel. And that even that person-to-person interaction diffuses any tension of looking down and saying, “Ohh, there’s gravel all—all over the road.” “Well, at least there’s somebody holding a “Stop” sign or a “Slow” sign, ah, recognizing that I am a vulnerable road user and they are, you know, taking care to ensure that those passing by the construction site are doing so safely.” 

Geoff Capelle:

So we’re speaking about construction quite a bit. This podcast is a podcast for architecture, engineering, and construction. What would you say to the architecture and engineering folks? How could they make it better for cycling?

Dana O’Born:

Great question. I’m not an engineer. But I’ve seen more and more courses that are being offered in engineering schools or even just upgrading your engineering, umm, degree—everybody does engineering differently—that have started incorporating cycling safety, fair road considerations for cyclists and pedestrians, all while teaching the rules of the road and—and the safe construction of—of roads.

So I think if people who are listening to this podcast are interested in cycling or already active cyclists, and they work in the space of architecture or engineering, roadways and—and cycling paths are a very interesting and sort of upcoming discussion that is not going to go away. And creating more livable cities, which I think probably a lot of architects and engineers are very interested in, especially in urban centres, really contributes to that overall lifestyle and equity that we’re all looking for in a city.

So I would encourage folks to check out different programs, to up their skills and start thinking about how to integrate these conversations in their city planning discussions with other engineers or if they’re working in construction companies. Talking to your construction boss, your construction company, and saying, “Look, I’m interested in learning a little bit more about cycling. There’s this course. I’d love to see if it’s something that could help me and help the organization.”

And I think that those types of moves for folks working in that industry also create a bit of a protective barrier, so to speak, or—or a more willingness maybe even is the better way to put it, when construction projects are bid on with cities and municipalities by saying, “Look, we have a group of people here who have been trained on understanding road-user safety, especially when it comes to cycling. We’re bidding on this project. Here's an extra tidbit about the education that some of our team members have gone through to ensure that the project is safe.”

And I think as the cycling discussion continues with cities like Toronto, Edmonton, Vancouver, many of those that we’ve talked about today, that’s going to garner a little bit of extra attention in those bids. And ultimately at the end of the day, it’s going to help, ah, the construction company.

So kind of a win-win-win situation. And at the end of the day it does have to be sort of a whole road-user approach. Construction zones are a place that we’re not going to avoid in the city. And whether you’re in a big truck, whether you’re on a bike, whether you’re in a wheelchair or walking by foot, we have to make those roadways accessible and safe for—for everybody.

[music]

Geoff Capelle: 

Thanks to Dana O’Born, chair of the board of Cycle Toronto. And thank you for listening to this episode of Building Good. I hope whether you’re a driver, a transit rider, a pedestrian, or a cyclist, you look at the way our roads are laid out a little differently now and see the possibilities there.

If you want more episodes of Building Good to listen to, maybe in your car, then subside to the show now in your podcast app. 

Building Good is a Vocal Fry Studios production, supported by Chandos Construction and Bird Construction. The executive producer is Jay Cockburn. Our producer is Kattie Laur, with production assistance from Jessica Loughlin. I’m Geoff Capelle, thanks for listening.